clutch replacement question, How much and how long? Options

[davidm_sh]

With all of the talk about LC, breaking transmissions, and warranty claims I have seen the following statement made which concerns me a bit. The statement goes something like this:

"Nissan does not open up the transmission for repairs, they simply replace the entire unit at a high cost $16-20k"

I am assuming that the clutch packs are a wearable item and even if you don't EVER use LC they will need to be replaced, even being optimistic, around 100,000 miles. So at this time it sounds like our only option would be to replace the entire transmission? I REALLY hope they have some reasonable price (heh - like the $5k brake job) to replace just the clutch packs for say in the $5k range?

I just remember when I was a teenager (more than a few years ago now) and my step dad had to get his 1983 Porsche 911 clutch replaced. He said it was going to cost $1000. At the time the clutch in my Honda Accord cost around $250 to replace. The only way I personally can get my head around the maintenance costs on the GTR is it is my dream car and it will NOT be my daily driver so the average cost of maintenance for myself each month is 'acceptable'.

But I would really like to hear from anyone who knows what the options are for clutch replacement down the road of normal use? Or is the transmission designed to never need the clutch packs replaced under normal use?

[YS1978]

is the transmission designed to never need the clutch packs replaced under normal use?

i dont think so !!!!

[MindlessOath]

clutches will need to be replaced when they wear. they are not a warranteed item. you have to pay for the whole trans to replace them unless dealers later on decide to do something differnt (assuming they are allowed).

dont use launch control it will casuse wheel hop and cause damage to the trans.

ceramic wheel bearings seem to help reduce wheel hop dramatically. invest in those. but still dont use launch control.

[PHoliday]

clutches will need to be replaced when they wear. they are not a warranteed item. you have to pay for the whole trans to replace them unless dealers later on decide to do something differnt (assuming they are allowed).

dont use launch control it will casuse wheel hop and cause damage to the trans.

ceramic wheel bearings seem to help reduce wheel hop dramatically. invest in those. but still dont use launch control.

I am still al little confused on this one, maybe I can get some clarification.

If my clutch wears out at 70k miles (or somewhere around there), do I have to replace the entire transmission to replace the clutch? This makes absolutely no sense to me, yet I keep hearing people alude to this. Why would Nissan build a wear and tear item, that cannot be replaced without replacing a 18 thousand dollar NON-wear-and-tear item?

That's like saying, "your timing belt needs replacement, but in order to do so, we need to replace your engine?" W. T. F.?????

Please, someone clarify this one.

[celsius]

IMHO, right now it's not financially feasible to let the Nissan tech change the clutch pack because of how many hours it takes and however complex it maybe. It probably easier and takes the tech less time to simply pull out the old tranny out, and put in the new one.

This post has been edited by celsius: Oct 6 2008, 07:51 AM

[davidm_sh]

IMHO, right now it's not financially feasible to let the Nissan tech change the clutch pack because of how many hours it takes and however complex it maybe. It probably easier and takes the tech less time to simply pull out the old tranny out, and put in the new one.

I understand what you are saying, but that begs the question - why didn't the engineers design the transmission better to replace the wear items. It just doesn't seem financially feasable to pass this bill onto the customer IMHO. I have been justfying a lot of things with this car up to this point (expensive oil changes, black box goodness, a LC system that you really shouldn't use and can void your warranty if used, ludicrous brake replacement cost, and expensive tires. But this is REALLY starting to push it for me - replacing a 18,000 part as part of 'normal wear and tear'?!?

This post has been edited by davidm_sh: Oct 6 2008, 08:21 AM

[PHoliday]

I understand what you are saying, but that begs the question - why didn't the engineers design the transmission better to replace the wear items. It just doesn't seem financially feasable to pass this bill onto the customer IMHO. I have been justfying a lot of things with this car up to this point (expensive oil changes, black box goodness, a LC system that you really shouldn't use and can void your warranty if used, ludicrous brake replacement cost, and expensive tires. But this is REALLY starting to push it for me - replacing a 18,000 part as part of 'normal wear and tear'?!?

I am going to be calling Nissan and resolving this. I am in the same boat, everything else I have been able to take. This, is really pushing my limits. I can deal with expensive maintenance, that's what you pay to play. I have no problem with the money, and I hold some pretty recession proof investments at this point, so I don't think the money will ever become an issue.

What I cannot deal with, is incompetence, or ingineering to screw the customer. If, in fact, you cannot replace wear and tear items without replacing the tranny, and the wear and tear item is not covered under warranty, then this falls directly into one of these two categories. In this case, if not resolved by the time I have 10k miles or so on the car (maybe less), I will be selling and moving to something else.

This is the first time I have felt like there is a deal-breaker with this car.

[Goodwood]

It's my guess that given more time, not only will there be oem clutch kits for Nissan techs to replace, but also aftermarket kits available and select shops around the country to do them. The car just hasn't been out long enough, esp in the US.

[Visual Homage]

I'm assuming most have already been here:
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25152

it has been alleged that the main weakness isn't necessarily in the clutch packs, but the gears. The clutches may be stronger than what the gears can handle under abusive conditions. This is actually quite normal for Nissans.

From first-hand account being around Nissans for years now, the Borg Warner units they put into Maximas would always fail after a while of spirited driving because the clutches, especially if you had a Stage 1, would clamp too harshly for what the factory gears could handle.


I would imagine the R35 is able to accelerate in 3.3 seconds, 0-60, under LC because of the same reason: they have a high performance clutch system in the GR6 to enable this kind of launch.


A car of 2 tons, with virtually zero turbo lag, can accelerate in 3.3 seconds (at least 3.6).... when you realize what must be overcome to achieve this ---

Indeed, more of these units must fail before we have 1st-hand accounts of the actual process. Regardless, labor and parts on clutch packs, if Nissan does the work, will be massively expensive.

And about other expenses mentioned: This car is and was always going to be like buying a used Ferrari: somewhat affordable to buy, a very expensive car to maintain and own. You can go out right as we speak and buy a nice 550 Maranello for $80k-$100k, about the same cost as a new R35. But get ready. There is no such thing as a cheap Ferrari. The GT-R is somewhat like this.

This post has been edited by Visual Homage: Oct 6 2008, 11:09 AM

[PHoliday]

I'm assuming most have already been here:
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25152

it has been alleged that the main weakness isn't necessarily in the clutch packs, but the gears. The clutches may be stronger than what the gears can handle under abusive conditions.

More of these units must fail before we have 1st-hand accounts of the actual process. Regardless, labor and parts on clutch packs, if Nissan does the work, will be massively expensive.

This car is and was always going to be like buying a used Ferrari: somewhat affordable to buy, a very expensive car to maintain and own. You can go out right as we speak and buy a nice 550 Maranello for $80k-$100k, about the same cost as a new R35. But get ready.

But, I will be warrantied for the gear going bad, since I do not turn off VDC or use LC. Under normal driving, without using VDC off or launch control, I would expect the clutches to wear over time. If my clutch goes, it doesn't matter how I drove it, I will have to pay for a new transmission. That is not "normal" expected high maintenance costs.

If my clutch goes tomorrow, I will have to buy a new 18k transmission to fix it. I do not like the fact that I may have to buy a 18k product, that isn't even broken, and that I am not driving a round a car that is warrantied against this.

I understand that brakes will go, and I fully anticipated needing a 5k brake job after I put some miles on the car.

I do not, however, expect to have to pay for a new gearbox because my clutch goes in the first 50-60 k miles (I forget what the powertrain warranty is, but it is something like 5 year and 50 or 60k miles.)

That is completely unacceptable.

[PHoliday]

But, I will be warrantied for the gear going bad, since I do not turn off VDC or use LC. Under normal driving, without using VDC off or launch control, I would expect the clutches to wear over time. If my clutch goes, it doesn't matter how I drove it, I will have to pay for a new transmission. That is not "normal" expected high maintenance costs.

If my clutch goes tomorrow, I will have to buy a new 18k transmission to fix it. I do not like the fact that I may have to buy a 18k product, that isn't even broken, and that I am not driving a round a car that is warrantied against this.

I understand that brakes will go, and I fully anticipated needing a 5k brake job after I put some miles on the car.

I do not, however, expect to have to pay for a new gearbox because my clutch goes in the first 50-60 k miles (I forget what the powertrain warranty is, but it is something like 5 year and 50 or 60k miles.)

That is completely unacceptable.

On one positive note, I guess I could luck out and have my gearbox go at 48k miles, and get a brand new setup. Since they can't replace the tranny without the clutch, I would get a new clutch too....

Knowing Nissan service, though, I bet they have found a way to replace the gearbox, but not the clutch pack... Just not the other way around.

[MindlessOath]

relax guys. are you going to be doing launch control like crazy (if so you have more to worry about than clutchs), or will you be adding alot of horse power to the car?

in either of those cases you will likly need new clutchs. the clutchs slip at around 600hp, other than that its just wear.

i havent heard of anyone needing to replace the clutchs yet for normal driving (or even driving around the race track every weekend).

the clutchs have not been proven to be stronger than originaly thought, thats what a dealer suggested and we all know how smart dealers are - they just are not. The main reasoning why doing launch control was damaging the trans is due to wheel hop. when that happens the damage has to occor somewhere, unless wheel hop is reduced or removed or moved to somewhere else to fail.

in any case... if you drive the car without doing launch control and without adding more power you should be fine.

and yes, i agree that dealers are lame, but nissan doesnt supply the clutchs and installing and removing the old clutchs is NOT - i repeat NOT easy. I think they can replace the clutch bell housing but the problem with that is, tho its easier to do, but nissan themselfs dont sell that part seperatly - it comes with the whole thing, ie 13k or whatever it costs, plus labor anywhere up to 18k.

but just relax. complain to nissan and mabe they will make these parts available.

in any case its better to just wait for aftermarket parts, or request the aftermarket to make them. If there is enough buyers they will make them.

[Visual Homage]

But, I will be warrantied for the gear going bad, since I do not turn off VDC or use LC. Under normal driving, without using VDC off or launch control, I would expect the clutches to wear over time. If my clutch goes, it doesn't matter how I drove it, I will have to pay for a new transmission. That is not "normal" expected high maintenance costs.

If my clutch goes tomorrow, I will have to buy a new 18k transmission to fix it. I do not like the fact that I may have to buy a 18k product, that isn't even broken, and that I am not driving a round a car that is warrantied against this.

I understand that brakes will go, and I fully anticipated needing a 5k brake job after I put some miles on the car.

I do not, however, expect to have to pay for a new gearbox because my clutch goes in the first 50-60 k miles (I forget what the powertrain warranty is, but it is something like 5 year and 50 or 60k miles.)

That is completely unacceptable.

What I'm saying is more than likely it will not be the clutches that fail first. It will be the gears giving way under the clamping forces of the clutches.

[MindlessOath]

i understand what your saying bonz, but thats not likly imho. Like i said that was just dealer mumbo jumbo. but im not saying that it cant be true in some respect.

[Visual Homage]

then time will tell. the guy in Russia will have to wait too long and his case is for gear failure. So far that has been, IIRC, the first major GR6 failure posted.

But we need a USDM failure or JDM failure to happen so we can see the whole warranty and parts replacement process done through Nissan.

That day is coming....

[dukestar]

If the gearbox needs to be replaced due to worn clutch pack but the rest of the gearbox is in good shape then surely we must get a credit similar to a core charge.

If Nissan charges me 18K to replace my gearbox then I want the old one thanks, no way they get to keep the old replaced gear box, ship it off to Japan or whereever Borg Warner is, rebuild it and then sell it.

[MindlessOath]

The guy in russia is just the first one who publicly posted pictures first. this has been happening for a while.

he has or will recive his trans really really soon, he found one to replace it and has sent his old trans to a compainy that repairs and strenghthens trans for evo's... so its in good hands, they may provide parts for other r35's, i dunno yet.

There are failures that happend in jdm world and usdm world. you just dont know about them yet. you will find out soon engouh, but many people on the forums have been warrned not to do launch control... the people not on the forums have not heard and dealers are keeping this quiet and for obvious reasons we dont hear about it because those people are not on the internet.


Im not sure how dealers will cover clutchs, most of them have said they replace the whole thing for the whole price, parts and labor. it may change later, but i dont see it now.

[davidm_sh]

If the gearbox needs to be replaced due to worn clutch pack but the rest of the gearbox is in good shape then surely we must get a credit similar to a core charge.

If Nissan charges me 18K to replace my gearbox then I want the old one thanks, no way they get to keep the old replaced gear box, ship it off to Japan or whereever Borg Warner is, rebuild it and then sell it.

After reading through this that is what I was thinking as well and hopefully it will be something along those lines.

stealershiptech you out there? Was any of this covered in your training?

[ShahulX]

then time will tell. the guy in Russia will have to wait too long and his case is for gear failure. So far that has been, IIRC, the first major GR6 failure posted.

But we need a USDM failure or JDM failure to happen so we can see the whole warranty and parts replacement process done through Nissan.

That day is coming....

see septskyline thread..... but i think he abused the LC...... like 40-50 times or more...

im not too worried... i drive normally, i did the LC one time to see... i saw it, had fun, probably will only do it a couple times more at most... i will mildly tune the car too.... need those ceramic bearings Mindless!!!

[MindlessOath]

they are on sale man
http://cba-r35.blogspot.com/2008/10/r35-gt...rings-sale.html
1800 for this week only! 200 for the other bearings. even more worth it seeing that after this week it will be $2200