clutch replacement question, How much and how long? Options

[PHoliday]

see septskyline thread..... but i think he abused the LC...... like 40-50 times or more...

im not too worried... i drive normally, i did the LC one time to see... i saw it, had fun, probably will only do it a couple times more at most... i will mildly tune the car too.... need those ceramic bearings Mindless!!!

So I called the nissan number for owners, and got through. They were very, very nice to me, and treated me extremely well (there are only 4 people who work the GTR calls, and the one I got was the main one.)

The person who I talked to is looking into the clutch replacement question, and will be getting back to me as soon as possible.

Also, in my general rantings, I was told that I should get a loaner car for not only each POS, but for all warrantied work. My local dealers have not offered on the warranty work, and only one even offered for the POS. Thus, she is calling the local dealers that I deal with and setting things straight. When I take my car in Wednesday, I am getting a free loaner. For those of you who have gotten poor resonses from this number, try during business hours, and try repeatedly (don't leave a message) until you get through.

I will keep everyone informed when I hear anything concrete about Nissan's policy on clutch pack replacement.

[GZire]

So I called the nissan number for owners, and got through. They were very, very nice to me, and treated me extremely well (there are only 4 people who work the GTR calls, and the one I got was the main one.)

The person who I talked to is looking into the clutch replacement question, and will be getting back to me as soon as possible.

Also, in my general rantings, I was told that I should get a loaner car for not only each POS, but for all warrantied work. My local dealers have not offered on the warranty work, and only one even offered for the POS. Thus, she is calling the local dealers that I deal with and setting things straight. When I take my car in Wednesday, I am getting a free loaner. For those of you who have gotten poor resonses from this number, try during business hours, and try repeatedly (don't leave a message) until you get through.

I will keep everyone informed when I hear anything concrete about Nissan's policy on clutch pack replacement.

The POS should have a loaner, it states so in the Owner's Manual (I thought it was supposed to be a Murano or a Maxima). I wasn't sure about the warrantied work either.

Anyhow, thanks for taking the lead on getting this information.

[davidm_sh]

Anyhow, thanks for taking the lead on getting this information.

+10

[R35_395]

I was hoping carbonetics were going to make a uprated clutch for the GT-R, according to the staff blog, they are unable too.
http://www.carbonetic.net/blog/blog/?cat=4

I hope someone does.

[Yancy]

MindlessOath:

One of your previous posts stated:

"The main reasoning why doing launch control was damaging the trans is due to wheel hop. when that happens the damage has to occor somewhere, unless wheel hop is reduced or removed or moved to somewhere else to fail."

Do you have support or any documentation for this statement? I was under the impression that wheel hop is exclusive to cars with independent rear suspension (IRS) like the ZO6, 350Z, GTR, 03-04 Cobra, etc. The most common failing issue (that I'm aware of) when experiencing wheel hop are broken half axles.

[celsius]

Well if "wheel hop" is the cause of the tranny breaking, Nissan should've copied GM when they designed the new 2009 CTS-V. If anyone remembers the previous CTS-V had Tremendous "wheel hop" and broke many differentials (warrantied?). In the 2009 CTS-V, they fixed the problem with different sized half-shafts on each side?

"Cadillac also has another trick up its sleeve. Like the ZR1 Corvette, the CTS-V uses axle shafts of different diameters. The one on the driver side has a hollow shaft that's 55mm in diameter, while the one on the passenger side is 35mm in diameter. The result is another measure to minimize wheel hop. " - edmunds

In any event, if GM will warranty their faulty design, so should Nissan!!

This post has been edited by celsius: Oct 7 2008, 01:05 AM

[Visual Homage]

Wheel hop is typically a live-axle occurrence, not IRS. Old skool American muscle cars and trucks are notorious for it.

[Goodwood]

Several guys with modded C6's (all models) have blown out the weak ass sides of the diff case due to wheel hop, esp at the drag strip. I dunno, is that funky transverse mounted composite leaf spring considered to be an IRS?

[MindlessOath]

Im pritty sure that wheel hop is one of the main causes (among others).

[PHoliday]

Update:

Although there is no concrete answer, I did get a call back to confirm that they are working the issue, and got a little news from them.

First off, the clutch is indeed completely integrated, and there is no way (nor any plans from Nissan that my representative knew of) to change that. If the clutch fails, the entire transmission package will need replacement (recommended). The clutch pack is designed to last "as long" as the transmission, so on a general note, they should fail at about the same time.... My rep gave quite a technical answer to my question, and I think she had heard from some very informed people (regarding how and why the clutch is integrated, but you smart car people on here know that, so I won't bore you). I think we are starting to see that the clutches can definitely hold up, even to the point that the gears fail first.

Second question, which my representative said she is working on was: "Since the clutch is fully integrated, is the clutch included in the powertrain warranty?" Usually, clutches are wear and tare items, so they are not covered. However, my representative said that she did not get an answer either way at this point... Since the clutch is integrated, and would require a full transmission replace if broken, one would think that it all has to fall under the warranty. My representative basically said that it wasn't that they didn't have the right person to ask, but that the people in NNA don't know the answer. She also said that, because of this question, they have set up a teleconference for tomorrow with some Nissan big wigs, and the topic will be figuring out the answer to this question. My rep said that she was going to follow the telecon, and get back to me on Thursday with an answer....

My general impressions:

They are being extremely helpful with me, and they are working hard to get an answer for me.

The clutch is integrated, and the only way that will change is inthe aftermarket sector.

Nissan is contemplating whether or not the powertrain warranty will cover the clutch, which would answer whether or not you get an entirely new tran package for free if it fails.

Nissan (or at least NNA) hadn't even thought about it before, and my question prompted an "oh shit, he's right" response, where maybe they had overlooked a major, major piece of their warranty philosophy...

If they do end up covering the transmission, it may make sense (to me) to buy the extended warranty. That way, if after 60 month/60k miles, my clutch pack fails, I am covered for the entire tranny.

Ultimately, if they cover the clutch under your powertrain warranty, than this would be a very good news from my perspective. Why not add some more wear and tare items to the list???

Hope that helps, and I will update when I hear back from my rep.

[Oo oO]

Thanks for the update, let us know what they say!

You know the whole thing of clutches in sequential manuals seems to be an issue many haven't thought through. I asked about warranties on the Smart and one person says the clutch is covered the other says it is wear and tear - it makes no sense really since the driver has no direct control over it. Anyone know how other manufacturers approach it?

[GZire]

Thanks for the update PHoliday.

[PHoliday]

Thanks for the update, let us know what they say!

You know the whole thing of clutches in sequential manuals seems to be an issue many haven't thought through. I asked about warranties on the Smart and one person says the clutch is covered the other says it is wear and tear - it makes no sense really since the driver has no direct control over it. Anyone know how other manufacturers approach it?

Most car warranties call them wear and tear, although that is with traditional manuals....

[jaspergtr]

holy crap... if nissan responds kindly to this... i think sales will not go down...... ever.....

[MindlessOath]

I havent heard the clutchs actually fail or anything yet. only if the driver decided to add more horse power, which is obvious. has anyon else heard of reports of the clutchs wearing/slipping with just normal driving (and ocational track driving)?

in any case... here is some images of the transmission... you can see, if a dealer wants, they can possibly replace the whole bell hosing for teh clutch pack. or.. the whole clutch pack, but thats not going to be easy. but not only that, but nissan doesnt offer either of these parts for sale, not for dealers or anyone.

so if nna do have a call, they will have to provide more part numbers to swap out etc (if they are nice that is).

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[Optherion]

The dealer might not be able to rebuild the trans or replace the clutch, but there are plenty of specialty companies that will figure out how in the up coming months. I wouldnt be worried. Right now as it stands, you can rebuild the trans in almost any car made. No one has really torn into the gearbox yet. I think we will find alot in common with other DSG gearboxes like the VW and Audi as they come time for their clutch replacements as well.

[MindlessOath]

that also brings up warrantee issues then. if someone else repairs or replace the clutchs, then its really a problem and then your warrantee for that part is totaly not covered and anything that attaches to that may not be covered.

am i wrong in thinking that? but ya, it would be cheaper, and this would be something needed after the warrantee is up obviously.

annother company is working on the gearbox. i cant say anything more than that, other than they found out alot of information sofar.

[Optherion]

that also brings up warrantee issues then. if someone else repairs or replace the clutchs, then its really a problem and then your warrantee for that part is totaly not covered and anything that attaches to that may not be covered.

am i wrong in thinking that? but ya, it would be cheaper, and this would be something needed after the warrantee is up obviously.

annother company is working on the gearbox. i cant say anything more than that, other than they found out alot of information sofar.

IF this thread is correct and as Nissan says, you must replace the transmission with the clutch as they are integrated. Would you rather pay the 20K for a new trans assembly from Nissan with the same expected life, or a rebuilt one for less cost, and more reliability. This is just speculation of course. I would rather give my money for repairs that will improve the car, not replace it with stock quality parts. just my .02

[MindlessOath]

You dont want to have just any shop work on a dual clutch tranny. i know very few that have worked on such a trans. i know one compainy that has worked with and learned alot of the R35 tranny sofar, and im glad! more news on that compainy when the time comes, it wont be too long, mabe a month or two, mabe a tad more. well see soon.

[celsius]

IMHO, the GR6 Tranny is DEFINATETLY covered by the powertrain warranty, if it's not, then what is considered the "powertrain" and what does that warranty pertain to?

Also, if borgwarner made the GR6 tranny, wouldn't Nissan pass the cost of warranty issues back to them?

Think about this!

The Bugatti Veyron costs $1.5mil and makes 922lbs of torque @ 2200 rpms. It is mated by a "Twin Clutch" gearbox that has 7 speeds and I also believe it has LC.
Does anyone know if there are issues with their gearbox?
Maybe we should just use their clutch pack!
But who makes their trans and why is it so strong?

This post has been edited by celsius: Oct 8 2008, 02:35 AM