street tune vs dyno Options

[elpasogtr]

How much better is a dyno tune than a street tune???
Of course im talking about using the cobb software and paying for a pro tune from cobb
Thanks

[jaspergtr]

dyno tune and street tune together would be best.

dyno tune will give you a one time snap shot...

a street tune will give you a repeatable record of performance.

if you have a wideband sensor, street tuning might be ok.

[35R]

How much better is a dyno tune than a street tune???
Of course im talking about using the cobb software and paying for a pro tune from cobb
Thanks

Perhaps the question is, how does a "mail order" tune compare the a full custom tune. I would hazard a guess even the base AP tunes were developed with some Dyno time. You would expect such base tunes to have a degree of safety built in, translating into less power. A full custom tune will always be better, how much is the question. I am no expert but with other cars / ecu's - i have seen "off the shelf" tunes for otherwise stock cars running about 85% ~ 90% "as good" as the full custom tunes (in terms of HP gains). If you want maximum power or have hardware mods, then a custom tune is better again.

This post has been edited by 35R: Mar 15 2009, 04:01 PM

[jaspergtr]

ah, mail order... i disregarded his intent. yeah, i've been trying to get a good tune for my car since early february, and i still have nothing.

[rjhoskins]

ah, mail order... i disregarded his intent. yeah, i've been trying to get a good tune for my car since early february, and i still have nothing.

So Jasper, when IS your trip to Forged?

[jaspergtr]

lol! after my y-pipe and actuators, i'm getting a tune. either by cobb, my protuner (if he gets the software), or forged (after i get my refund from cobb).

[tyndago]

On a dyno you can see any real dips, or problems. Things you can never feel on the street. Street tuning a car is dangerous at best. I have done both . If I have any kind of choice, I want a dyno.

On some cars it can be worth tons of power.

[DragoGT-R]

Its honestly good to do both.

There is nothing wrong with street tuning a car. You dont need a dyno to tune a car.

The dyno just makes things easier. You dont have to worry about traffic and you have the ability to look at things more closely as they happen.

However, in both cases, a tuner looks at his logs on each pull he does- whether it be on the dyno or the street. From there they make their corrections.

The reason I think both are good is because somethings do change a little once a car is put on the street and its good to just double check the tune in real conditions (not on the dyno). The dyno is a nice safe controlled atmosphere.

This post has been edited by DragoGT-R: Mar 16 2009, 08:46 AM

[Sharif@Forged]

A live dyno tune will always trump a street or remote tune...period. The dyno will show and tell things that are not descernable from a street or remote tune. For simple bolt on's a remote tune can work very well. But regardless, more power will be had with a live dyno tune...no question.

[gotboost]

A live dyno tune will always trump a street or remote tune...period. The dyno will show and tell things that are not descernable from a street or remote tune. For simple bolt on's a remote tune can work very well. But regardless, more power will be had with a live dyno tune...no question.

+1

[DragoGT-R]

Hmmm Im not sure if always trump....if your saying over a mail order tune they yes defiantly. Either one is better.

However, would you agree that sometimes certain variables change from tuning a car on the dyno and then seeing it perform and logging it on the street?

Being on a dyno I think is nice because you can look at the cars conditions as you make a pull far more closely then you could going 125mph on a street. So in that case you may save yourself some aggravation if you notice something funky during the pull and can back out of it.

Example:

The STM Evo

This car was tuned on the street and only on the street. STM did not have a dyno at this point when the car was built..... It holds the FASTEST and HIGHEST Trapping record in the 1/4 all done on a stock motor for the Evo 8/9. 10.0 @ 138

He is a personal friend of mine also

He shattered the times out there by .5 or .6 seconds...nobodody thought he could do it...He was using a similar 35r turbo like most of the others and had similar mods on the car- it came down to tuning in the end.

Check out the car

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/STM-Evo...mile_182357.htm

Heres his 10.1 run- the first pass he did with his setup

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/STM-Evo...tock_168111.htm

Sad to say the motor blew when he messed up at the track by missing the gear and reving to 11,500rpm! OUCH! but the car was daily driven for three years with 50k miles on the motor when she gave out- or well he messed up- no doubt it would have gone 9's. Great news is hes going after the same record again this year!

A dyno maybe the ultimate scenario for tuning, but the knowledge going into the tune that is being created is more important, to me that is, then whether or not the car is done on the dyno or the street.

This post has been edited by DragoGT-R: Mar 15 2009, 11:20 PM

[Sharif@Forged]

However, would you agree that sometimes certain variables change from tuning a car on the dyno and then seeing it perform and logging it on the street?

Thank you for clarifying this for me. I didn't mean to imply that a street tune/test isn't needed after doing a Dyno Tune., because it most definately is. No car leaves my shop without at least a street test. Becuase our dyno is load based, I rarely, have to make a change after street testing.

But you are absolutely correct, depending on the dyno, you may not be able to replicate how the engine will behave on the street.

I am speaking with respect to the GT-R, but I see exactly your points.

[35R]

anyone ever walked in front of a dyno fan? compare that to sticking your arm out of the car at 130mph..

At the end of the day the best tunes come from experienced operators, be it road, dyno, racetrack or all of the above. So asking if a dyno tune is better than a road tune really depends on a lot - most importantly who is doing it! But FWIW any serious tuner worth their salt are going to have a dyno anyway. Sometimes when setups get a bit radical (aftermarket cams, turbo's, huge exhaust etc) then it becomes a real art; dyno's can't simulate a 3-point carpark turn at full lock in sub-zero temps after a cold start at 3am, in the mountains at 3000ft.

[DragoGT-R]

Thank you for clarifying this for me. I didn't mean to imply that a street tune/test isn't needed after doing a Dyno Tune., because it most definately is. No car leaves my shop without at least a street test. Becuase our dyno is load based, I rarely, have to make a change after street testing.

But you are absolutely correct, depending on the dyno, you may not be able to replicate how the engine will behave on the street.

I am speaking with respect to the GT-R, but I see exactly your points.

Hey Sharif

I wasnt trying to come off like a hard ass or anything lol. I was just trying to say there can be variations between enviroments and a few pulls on the street can be needed.

Hey I know you know your stuff

[jaspergtr]

...I was just trying to say there can be variations between enviroments and a few pulls on the street can be needed...

this exactly what i saw with my tune...

my tune was sent by john @ cobb, and my dyno showed one thing for one gear, and my results greatly varied in real life...

my tune (emailed from cobb) on the dyno showed boost peaking and then tapering off to about 12-13 psi (typical of stock actuators). but on the 1/4 and @ vir, my car died in 3rd and 4th gear, i was only peaking at 9psi, and then tapering off to 7psi.

if i reset the ecu and did a reflash, i would get three or four gear changes at wot before my car would turn to crap.

anyway, i'm back running stage 1 (which is still pretty quick).