They don't really test them head to head though a good read. The LF-A is an odd one considering the price...

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes...ison/index.html

yeah they do its the end of the video. the GTR gets it off the line pretty good but the LFA pulls away just as its wing rises up


LFA 11.8 @123

GTR 11.9 @ 121




For our drag video (see below), we rely on time tested hand signals to stage and send the cars. After the ready confirmation, our starter's hands go up one at time. When they both go down, it's show time.
Nail the LFA launch just right -- just after the hands start coming down -- and a half-length holeshot on the GT-R is possible. That's enough to crush it from start to finish. Leave but a fraction of a second later, and the LFA becomes the hunted one. Eleven seconds have never felt this slow; at every upshift, the single-clutch Lexus loses precious inches off its lead to the double-clutching GT-R. One to two -- the GT-R hits 60 in just 3.5 seconds to the LFA's 3.8. Two to three, three to four -- the GT-R nearly pulls even as both accelerate into the triple digits. Only now the LFA begins to exhort its top end dominance. That three-tenths of a second advantage is gone by 90 mph. In fact, the LFA hits 100 mph four-tenths faster than the GT-R -- and just keeps going. As both flash past the quarter-mile marker, the LFA never looks back.

And yet, for those only interested in stoplight grand prix, the GT-R is still the better choice. While the LFA may be faster on paper and on limitless stretches of highway, Godzilla launches more consistently and feasts on imperfect launches. Nine times out of ten, the GT-R leaves quick enough to overcome the LFA's top-end advantage



Although we already know who will win, it's all theoretical bench racing. During acceleration testing of the Lexus, we uncover an ugly truth about the LFA's long gestation period. Its sequential manual gearbox (SMG) feels years behind the dual clutch boxes like the GT-R.

Lexus claims no official launch control for the LFA, and its SMG transmission isn't particularly snappy when simply flooring the throttle. Yet all attempts at power braked launches (even with traction control completely shut off) are met with frantic resistance. Herky-jerky engagement results in only mid-4 second launches -- far off the claimed 3.6-second pace claimed by Lexus. At this point, our boy Bill suggests we try some illicit activity with his LFA. "Put it in neutral, rev to 4000 rpm, and then grab the + paddle for first gear," he says.

To his credit, road test editor Scott Mortara adamantly refuses -- not wanting to be the first (and last) journalist to litter the dragstrip with $375,000 worth of LFA powertrain. Only after a phone consultation with the engineers back at Lexus HQ, does Mortara grudgingly consent to try this technique.

It works, but not all of the time. A great launch means only a chirp of the tires and blistering acceleration, but vary the rpm just bit and the LFA torches its rubber before rocketing down the strip. A slight delay between paddle actuation and SMG response further complicates a fast start.

In comparison, few things are simpler than launching a GT-R. Since launch control has been removed, all it takes is a bit of powerbraking to help load the transmission and build boost. Then sledgehammer the pedal and hold on.

here we go...

"...few things are simpler than launching a GT-R. Since launch control has been removed, all it takes is a bit of powerbraking to help load the transmission and build boost. Then sledgehammer the pedal and hold on."

Er, really? Anything less than 100% brake pedal and flooring the throttle results in terrible clutch overheating and very slow launches with LC2!
9 times out of 10, you are better off simply flooring it in Auto rather than trying to engage LC2, particularly if reaction time is relevant i.e. a genuine race...

$375,000 vs 85,000 ? almost 4.5 to 1 ! And LFA is faster only beyond the 1/4 mile. Some times I tend to agree with Top Gear...

Agreed, if Im paying $400,000 for a car, I better beat an $85,000 car. I have to say I am loving the sound of the LFA, it sounds exactly like a Ferrari, but would you really spend that money for that kind of car if you are luckily enough to get chosen.

The answer for me is a resounding "no." I would take a 599 any day and keep the change.

If I am paying 400k for a car, then I am buying a house.

Stupid price... Everytime I see this car I think... "Looks nice, sounds nice" and then think about the price ... I mean REALLY think about how much it is compared to everything else in it's performance range...

It's great to say that it's made of carbon fiber etc.... But if it can barley beat a Nissan gtr, corvette zr1, viper acr, 599'w etc.... And it's a Toyota...

I still don't quite understand the pricing of the LF-A. I'd rather buy a MP4-12C, or for exclusivity's sake, a GT-R Spec. V.

damn that price is just crazy...wonder what the price will be after 2 years when the leases are up...

It is a great looking car. I would love to own one.

I doubt it will be leased, there will only be 500 made and will probably hold its value. LF-A is definately a "halo" car.

Lexus is only letting owners do a 2 year lease on the LFA, well last time I checked...
I'm wondering how much the price will drop after they return the car...should drop at least 100-150K, no?

i love the digital readout (tach/speedo)

Well it's a leasing programme from the factory cuz they want to prevent price gauging. Dealers are not selling the car but you are only leasing for name sake, you own the car, just can not sell in the first 2 yrs I believe. Even after 2 yrs I would be hard pressed to see LF-A go for anything less than it's MSRP, only 160 in the US.

You have to see the car to believe it, and people talking about I rather have one car over the other for the price, well if you are wealthy enough to drop 425 then you would have a nice garage already or can go through cars quickly, so it doesn't matter what you have rightnow, cuz you would own something equally expensive / other choice pretty soon if you already do not.

When I saw the car in person on the track I wanted one, it doesn't matter if it turns out slower than the GT-R, which we still haven't established yet.

Dont Know abt you ppl but those side by side photo comparisons, The GTR Looks Better

it sounds like a better idea to invest 400k!

indeed, after not seeing or driving my GT-R for 3+ weeks I am starting to notice more perks about the car!

I don't know what it is about those photos (maybe because the GT-R is right beside?) but the LF-A looks a lot more kit car-ish than I remember.

I actually thought it looked pretty good before but would never take it over a 458 Italia, Gallardo, or even my GT-R but then again I'm not super rich and they have different priorities than I do lol.

yes i would.

if im paying $400k, i better get something than an $85k car can't give.

the gtr is at heart, a performance machine. it offers reliable, accessible performance in all conditions. its tons of fun for that, and nothing less than awe inspiring.

when i look at the lfa though, i see something that's made to offer an experience. why would a vehicle engineer elect to call for an all new single clutch manual when dsg is clearly the way things are going? why would they make a v10 from scratch when they could turbocharge the ISF's V8? and the even better question- why have yamaha tune the way the car sounds?

i think its all because toyota was looking to create a certain experience. performance was only the secondary objective.

i have an s2000 in addition to my gtr and love it. where i live, and how i drive, it offers something on the street that the gtr doesnt. i obviously love the gtr and its probably the most impressive and overall one of the best experiences ive ever had on the road... but horsepower statistics, 1/4 mile times, even lap times, are not the only way that cars, even sports cars, should be measured.

so at $400k it costs more than many cars, even some ferraris. but i havent heard a ferrari around $400k that sounds like the lfa. yes many gtrs will eat an lfa on the street or on the track, in any weather condition. but with the $320k difference, could you make a gtr that offers a better experience of the same sort that the lfa appears to strive for? i havent driven the lfa and am only guessing here, but im inclined to say that i doubt it.

the lfa could well be worth it, to me. if i were in the market id definitely give it a try. but i know what im looking for and know my own tastes. the basis of its success/failure in my eyes would have nothing to do with its performance relative to a gtr, corvette, or 458. it would come down to how it drives and if its really special in that regard.

to others though, performance is really everything, and for them i dont think the lfa makes a lot of sense.

Agreed, agreed. When I read the comments on the thread, I was getting ready to blow up until I read yours. I cannot believe that these GT-R fans are missing the point of the LF-A. If anything I would have hoped they would have been the ones to see past the price (I know most of us can't afford one, so yes we can look past the price) and appreciate what the car stands for.
How can you forget the way the car was built?
Its chassis?
......which by the way only the 599 and the SLR McLaren has a similar monocoupe construction, which is VERY EXPENSIVE!! Remember folks ONLY 500 will be made!!
..find another V10 engine which is able to spin to such high RPMs (redline would have been 9,000 rpm) unless it is in a RACECAR!! and the SOUND!! The sound alone is worth the cost....
...seeing both cars side by side, the LF-A and the GT-R brings to sharp focus, the unmistaken JAPANESE styling of both cars. Neither will EVER be accused of adapting European styling cues.
...Since when was quarter mile trap times and speed the measure of a car's performance? I cannot believe that GT-R enthusiasts have become so narrow in their thing..

.....to be dismissed so offhandly for being a Lexus. I actually had to do a double take to make sure I was not on 6speedonline.

Oh how far we have come from being the site of CAR enthusiasts...


PS: It was a good thing that the Z-Tune was only release to the Japanese market. I cannot imagine what the 'real car' fans would have said about the price ( a base $170, 000 US which BTW was comparable to the pricest exotics of the time.

To me the LF-A is just a more tactile, comfortable, quicker, engaging and expensive GT-R. I would buy one. I hope someone from Toyota is reading this....

I think a lot of the problem is precisely because most of us can't afford one that it's hard to look past the price. Most of us look at it as a big purchase and so are far more critical of it.

As I and someone else mentioned the super-rich who can actually get this car have different priorities and to them 400 grand would probably be trivial. I know if I had that kind of money this car would likely find a place in my garage but only after I'd bought several other supercars I lust after far more.

And I think that's also a key problem with the LF-A - it stands as a great engineering achievement no doubt but like so many other Lexuses (or Lexi, whatever) - for most people at least - it fails to inspire the lust that other cars do. When I fantasize about being in a high-dollar supercar my dreams don't have me picking up Megan Fox in an LF-A - it always seems to be a 458 or a Gallardo or a Mclaren F1 or heaven forbid, a tuned Lotus 7 lol.

I think that being able to admire a car for its engineering isn't the only measure to being a car enthusiast. I also think that performance is not the only measure of a car. However, I don't think having a different opinion of a car from someone should make anyone less of a car enthusiast than anybody else. Different strokes for different folks as they say

It has nothing to with the being an enthusiast. It has to do with the dismissive attitude: The same attitude we on Nagtroc complain about when the Pcar owners and the like dismiss our beloved GT-R.....but as you say different strokes for different folks and I'm not mad at ya...

I didn't think you were mad at me bro - I thought you guys had valid points too - just figured I'd throw out a possible explanation for why some of the posters thought that way. All's cool

Spec V > LFA

;)

True

I do not think that performance is the only thing that matters BUT price can never be ignored! It is absurd to ignore price After all we are talking about cars... they are industrial products, not ideas!

I really think the LFA needs at least 620hp to justify its $400k cost...

Not when you have the money to buy a car that will keep its residual worth ( which based on how Lexus is doing its selected buying it will!!). This reminds me so much of the Z-Tune ableit in larger numbers....

Paying $400K to sound like a Ferrari??
For $400K I would just get a Ferrari and be done with it. None of that sound like and look like stuff....LOL




+1000.

+2 best response haha..... yeah i could also buy another GTR beside the house

if i had the money for an lfa im sure i would have the money for more than one and a house. its a drop in the bucket for some people.

Thats what I would do














Oh wait that is what I am doing.

Agree. But for those mega-rich who sees $400K as a drop in their bucket probably wouldn't want to be caught in a TOYOTA in the first place anyway....hahaha

^^^^ is that like how they wouldn't be caught dead in a Datsun, too?

It sounds mazing!
i totallyl agree.



+1




Ahh touche'!

I would get one if I had the money. Lots of people can't justify paying 85k for a Nissan, so it's a Toyota argument must end. The car is super exclusive and imagine the looks you will get.

The LFA is more expensive than any Ferrari, except for the Enzo.... This is blasphemy, this is madness... this is SPART.... eeer LEXUS!

Yes, you're right. They probably wouldn't.

But at least they wouldn't be looking like a fool comparing to being caught dead in a $400K Toyo...err Lexus.

Point being if they're gonna be caught dead in anything then they might as well spend less doing it. LOL.

i just dont like toyota... maybe because I worked for Honda for 7 years or my Supra had so many issues... or that they make the most boring cars in the world ...or that they lie to stockholders and consumers and governments, or that their interiors are garbage... or etc etc....

the talk of the engineering is great but whats the point of carbon fiber everything and this and that if in the end it doesnt perform? I am all about the validity of the greatness of the MX-S miata... its a great car and puts a smile on my face and Iunderstand that is what maybe the GTR lacks (to some) and the LFA may have.... but to the poor person like me, you have to look at the 458 italia and then the Lfa and just say... 'really"???

OH!!!! but I love the digital tach/readouts.... that counts for something right?

Honestly If this car was $199k it would make sense and I would be having the opposite argument.... despite the GTR costing less than half...

LOL

Well the whole point of the car was a design and engineering exercise for Toyota to learn how to make CF cheaply enough to introduce in mass-produced cars, thereby leapfrogging aluminum technology (which even the 599 still uses). If they can produce a Yaris or Corolla using CF components at a low enough price, they will be head and shoulders above competitors. In the premium market, BMW are also looking at partnerships with CF manufacturers for their new line of city cars.
It doesn't perform? Despite RWD and the lack of DCT, it seemed to hold itself pretty well against the GT-R which is not exactly a slug.


Precisely. If objective performance were all that mattered, GM would have put Porsche and Ferrari out of business ages ago. The LFA's head engineer is on record as saying their target was to strive for the driving experience (which is why it has the antiquated F1-style gearbox, which gives a more mechanical response to driver input than the smooth delivery of most DCT's), the sound and response that only a naturally-aspirated car breathing through individual throttle bodies can deliver. The objective performance (faster than an AWD Gallardo on TopGear's wet track), and lapping under 7:30's on the 'Ring is just an interesting side-effect. Not a priority.


Some reviews have said it sounds better than any Ferrari. And that it's also built better than anything Italian.

Regarding the lease, that is only happening in the US. In other parts of the world, you can buy the LFA outright.

i think the car is awesome no doubt... honestly I do... but it's just funny when your talking about a Ferrari being the "cheaper" alternative. I guess the Zonda (which is my life love) is pretty out there as far as price/performance to a dgeree... granted it'd wipe the floor with most cars after the initial wheelspin

and I understand supercars (which this is) have big pricetags.... but I guess i dont actually "understand" the price of this versus cars like the Scuderia and LP560's

Volume.
Only 500 LFA's, built from the ground up. Completely new engine, completely new body/chassis with CF monocoque. Almost completely bespoke interior; maybe 1-2 components are carryovers from other Lexus models.
The Scuderia and LP560 are merely evolutionary vehicles, with base models already built in numbers of around 5000-10000. The F430 itself is an evolution of the 360 Modena built on ALCOA's assembly plant within Ferrari's factory. V8 Ferraris are generally priced below true market value anyway.

The LFA is outclassed by every supercar in its price range. It is decent looking, but its a weak ride for the price. Give us a TTV8 Supra on the same chassis for a third the price, and stop fucking with us, Toyota.

stick to your v8 tt supra. how lame can anyone get. get off the supra's nuts for a minute. you think supra's are a force to reckon with? i'm talking about stock vehicles here.

Why does a car coming out of japan have to be valued by performance vs price? And comparing LFA to a GTR in a drag race. How American can this thing get? Why are people buying f430s when they can get a Z06 that out performs an f430?

mkes sense... so if they were to produce a "LF-B" a second car your saying the production cost would go down so much based on evolving an existing chassis.... i get it I guess....

http://www.thesupercars.org/fastest-cars/f...ld-top-10-list/


http://www.thesupercars.org/top-cars/most-...list-2007-2008/


I guess it somewhat makes sense based on these list...comparing it withe SLR Mclaren and Carerra GT

Precisely. The more numbers you can produce, the greater the amortization and thus the lower the per-unit price can be. This is a reason given by Aston Martin's CEO as to why the One-77 costs so much. It's a CF monocoque with bespoke tailoring and doesn't use the existing VH platform like the other Astons. They have considerable capital costs in just tooling up for this thing.

When you consider the production volume of the SLR and CGT (something like 1200 units each), then the price being asked by Lexus for the LFA is not outrageous at all. The SLR even had supercharging to help produce its power, a 5-speed auto that's not all that different from other MB's, and ceramic brakes that were often criticized for lacking feel and modulation.